The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-Boundaries (Relationships)

As previously stated, 30-40% of pastors will have an affair. I wondered how this number compared to the general population. I found varying numbers. I do research for a living, so I know how to do it, but I don't have the time or inclination to do serious peer-reviewed research for my blog (not bringing work home with me). This MSN article will have to suffice in lieu of rigorous research. The gist the "American Sexual Behavior" study of 10,000 people over 20 years is that 22% of married men and 15% of married women have cheated at least once. If the numbers on both sides can be trusted, then pastors cheat twice as much as men in other professions. Hmmmm....

Why does this happen? Why are men in vocational ministry more likely to cheat? I don't know the exact answer, but I have some suspicions. First of all, most ministers are really good listeners. Women like to be listened to and validated. Some women also see pastors are "the perfect man" and put them on an unrealistic pedestal. (Just an FYI, pastors still leave their dirty underwear on the floor and forget to drag the garbage out to the curb on occasion). So women see this ideal man who is a good listener, she admires him and begins to tell him how awesome he is, and...then the conditions are prime.

So what to do? It's all about boundaries. Ministers absolutely have to have boundaries in place for how they interact with others of the opposite sex (or even the same sex, i.e., Ted Haggard), especially in counseling situations. When Robert was at a traditional church, his (our) boundaries were as follows:
*Never ride alone in a car with another female.
*Always remain visible when counseling, esp. a female. Someone else had to be in the outer office and he had an open window in his office door so anyone could walk by and see what was going on.
*Never allow another female in the house when I wasn't home (even a random youth who dropped by just to say hi)
*He always informed me when he had a conversation with a female friend--not a quick "Hi, how are you?" conversation, but a real conversation.
*All phone calls and texting to females were information-sharing and not just chatting.
*We both have total access to each other's email, cellphones, FB, etc. and know each other's passwords. We generally don't check up on each other, but we know that we can do so very easily.
*He trusted and respected my intuition and input re: "dangerous women."

Those boundaries were all legalistic and worked well. Normally legalism is a bad thing, but sometimes there is something to be said for ironclad rules. In a large church they worked. I suppose I had similar boundaries (i.e., not riding in a car, random chats, etc. with men) except that I worked 100% with other women and really was only around other guys in the context of our couple friends so it was a non-issue. The only time it became an issue is that WITHOUT FAIL, every time Robert went out of town for a youth event some major home repair need occurred. Once our electric garage door just started going up and down repeatedly and out of control and another time the kitchen sink backed up. I called our senior pastor to help tame the garage door and our across the street neighbor came and snaked out my sink. So those time there was a male in the house with my husband out of town, but the kids were there too and Robert knew about it. I'm sure if someone had been staking out the house they could have started all sorts of rumors.

Anyway, the list from above is pretty typical among many pastors. However, there are those who don't have established boundaries or change them. I have known of several situations in which the wife feels uncomfortable with how much time her pastor-husband is spending with another female church or staff member and/or the level of intimacy (inc. phone calls, emails) with another female. Anytime the wife feels uncomfortable then the husband needs to cease and desist!! Find another person to counsel the woman, block the woman's needy phone calls, whatever. We females have some powerful God-given intuition and we know (truly) how manipulative other women can be. Personally, I have never been too concerned about this yet, mostly because Robert has always been super vigilant about not putting himself in potentially compromising situations. However, there have been a few women that made my chick radar go off. A couple of them were emotionally needy and one of them was just bad news and a user.

However, now Robert is a church planter and I work in an environment with a lot of men. The rules have had to change and adapt. Robert no longer has an office, except at home. He no longer has a secretary or co-workers to be an extra person around for accountability when counseling. I work full-time so I can't be that extra person either. Most of the counseling either occurs at our house at night when I am around or more likely, at the local coffee shop or the student union at the university. Robert works out of the coffee shop several hours a day and they all know him there. I don't go nearly as often, but when I have gone he introduced me to everyone and said, "If you see me here with someone other than my wife then let her know." I then responded that he probably would be there with someone other than me, but it was okay. When Robert does meet with another female in public he lets me know and he usually has the person bring a friend along.

Speech pathology is an overwhelmingly female field, but academia is not. I am on several committees and a board of directors with other guys and I have been involved in a couple of research projects with just me and another guy. Again, any meetings have occurred in our offices with either open doors or windows and Robert knows about everything. We've had to adjust and modify our rules as we've gone along, but we still stay accountable to each other and let each other know our dealings with people of the opposite sex.

I have been involved in a couple of different forums for pastors' wives and the issue of boundaries is often discussed. I have heard some women say that you absolutely can't be friends with someone of the opposite sex and that if you have to work with opposite gendered people then you should never share feelings or emotions. Everything should stay very "surface."

One of my all-time favorite movies is When Harry Met Sally. Harry would agree that men and women can't be friends.

Harry: You realize of course that we could never be friends.
Sally: Why not?
Harry: What I'm saying is — and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form — is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No you don't.
Sally: Yes I do.
Harry: No you don't.
Sally: Yes I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: How do you know?
Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?
Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail 'em too.
Sally: What if they don't want to have sex with you?
Harry: Doesn't matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.
Sally: Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then.
Harry: Guess not.
Sally: That's too bad. You were the only person that I knew in New York.

I don't think that's entirely true. However, I think there can potentially be a grain of truth there. I do think that it is unwise to have close intimate friends of the opposite sex. I always had some deep wonderful friendships in high school and college with guys. They were some of my most treasured friendships. These were guys with whom I could hang out and talk for hours and that I trusted with my deepest secrets and dreams. And they were platonic. However, they were very intimate in the emotional depth of those friendships and that's no really appropriate within the realm of marriage. I think that friends of the opposite sex either have to be "couple friends" or a friend who is a mutual friend of the husband and the wife.

Regarding surface relationships, one can only talk about the weather so much. If I am talking with someone at church, frequently (and rightly so) spiritual issues should come up in conversation and those are very deep conversations, usually with significant emotion attached. Similarly, when I am at work I am in a double-barreled helping profession as both a speech pathologist and a teacher. Everyone I work with, and in fact every professor I have ever met, is VERY passionate about what he/she does. That automatically leads to deeper conversations about ideology, beliefs, passion, justice, causes, emotional attributes, etc. Combine that with the fact that I work alongside these people at least 40 hours a week and it inevitable that we talk about our families, our successes and failures, our challenges and dreams. And Robert did the same with his male and female colleagues when he worked in a large traditional church. If you are human and relational, it's unavoidable. I think we can be open and share, but that there is a filter in place. If I had a fight with my husband or we were having marital problems, then I would certainly never discuss that with another guy. That's just being smart.

We also have to be aware of people around us and of accidentally sending out mixed messages. I did have an incident a few months ago where I was speaking at a conference. During the breaks and the application part of the workshop this guy kept coming up to talk to me. At first it was related to the topic of the presentation, but then it got more personal. I noticed he was standing closer and making more eye contact and just coming up with stupid things to talk about. I'm a little slow, because it has been a long time since a guy other than my husband has made a move, but I finally figured out what was going on. I had already stepped back and starting crossing my arms and sending "back off" body language. Once the lightbulb went off then I started flashing my wedding band a lot and saying, "my husband" this and "my husband" that.

Bottom line is that ministerial couples have to set boundaries. There needs to be a little wiggle room, but overall the boundaries need to be pretty tight. And unless one partner is obsessively jealous or has some significant trust issues, then they should trust each other's intuition and nip potential problems in the bud. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. (Matthew 10:16b)

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-Marriage 102

Marriage 101 was about a man's needs in marriage, so it's only fair that this is about a woman's needs. These are also taken from Harley's book, His Needs, Her Needs. In the previous post, I mentioned that in the book the premise is affair-proofing one's marriage. This is true for anyone's marriage, but the stats in the other post suggest that pastors are at a high risk of infidelity. And infidelity is a two-way street...the wife is at risk as well. So, according to Harley, here are a woman's top 5 needs.

1. The First Thing She Can't Do Without - Affection
I find it interesting that a man's first need was sex and a woman's highest need is affection. They are certainly related, but not quite the same. Merriam-Webster defines affection as 1 : a moderate feeling or emotion 2 : tender attachment : fondness 5 : the feeling aspect (as in pleasure) of consciousness. Personally, I think of affection as being every day small ways of showing love. It can be physical, such as snuggling, kissing, holding hands, etc. or not, such as playful teasing and flirting. It is a "symptom" of attachment and fondness. While woman want affection, I think men enjoy it too. However, the difference is that they often see it as a means to an end (sex) perhaps, whereas women want affection just for the sake of affection sometimes. Women want to know that they can dance in the kitchen with their husbands and snuggle on the couch without it ALWAYS having a "Hey Baby" connotation. I do think when couples touch a lot, joke often, and make eyes at each other across the room that it often will lead to sex, but the key is that it doesn't have to. Men need to embrace the art of non-sexual touch. There is something to be said for a tight long hug, holding hands, and even a passionate make-out session that doesn't end up in the bedroom.

I also think we have to consider personal backgrounds here. Robert is a toucher. He is a very physically affectionate person and he was raised in a touchy household. I am not a toucher and I came from a family that was not particularly physically affectionate. When we married (and even while dating) constantly being touched annoyed the heck out of me. 25 years later we have reached a compromise. For example, when we would hold hands Robert would usually stroke my finger with his thumb or run his hand up and down my arm--drives me crazy (and not in a good way). However, I do like just holding hands or him resting his hand on my arm or even gently squeezing my arm. No movement, but pressure, warmth, and simple touch are okay. All of that to say, I think both partners have to consider the other's perspective on touch and physical affection. Affection can also be a good barometer, at least for me. It took me a few years to make the connection, but Robert touches me every single time he walks past me. I'm not exaggerating. If I'm cooking he might hug me from behind, if I am sitting down doing something he is likely to kiss me on the head. At the very least he will touch my back or arm or shoulder. But, if he doesn't...I know his is irritated at me or mad at me. It is a very reliable indicator for me.

I suppose that what couples call each other is a show of affection as well. Personally though, I hate pet names. They make my skin crawl. The only name that we both call each other is Babes. I have no idea why we add the extra "s," but we do. We also can't call each other our real names--it just feels weird. I think it is because we are more intimate so we can't use the same names that everyone else uses for us. So Robert always calls me Pamela (which only a handful of friends, past and present, call me) and sometimes Cutie and I called him Bob (which no one is allowed to call him), Bobster, and Roberto/Robertolus. For others of you, you may call each other Honey, Sweetie, Snooky-pie face, whatever floats your boat. I'll just vomit in my mouth a little when I hear it. However one word of caution: NEVER, EVER call each other Mama or Daddy. You are not each other's parent. You are only the parents of your children. We once read a marriage book that talked about how spouses sometimes call each other mama and daddy and that it can be an indicator that the marriage is not going well. I doubt that it is entirely true, but anytime Robert and I hear couples refer to themselves that way when out and about we look at each other and laugh. That's affection!

2. She Needs Him To Talk To Her - Conversation
This is a big one for me! I love to talk (cue jokes on women and talking now). I've done a lot of cool things, been to a lot of interesting places, but hands-down my best life experiences are deep conversations with people I love and care about. Obviously as a general rule women do like to talk, but I don't think we want to talk AT you. We want to talk WITH you. It is so important for a man to engage in conversation with his wife and really listen. That means turning off the TV, putting down the book, and making eye contact and asking questions. We want your thoughts and input. We like what you have to say. That's part of what attracted us to you. However, sometimes we just want to vent and be validated. We don't want you to tell us what to do and how to solve the problem. Just listen. So, sometimes we want your input and sometimes just your ears---when do you know to do which one? I can't help you there. I'll be the first to admit that women are inconsistent creatures and there's no making sense of us. Just accept it, maybe embrace it, and keep trying anyway.

Here's a great little clip from 30 Rock about "Porn for Women." Basically, porn for women is a man who will talk and listen.


One more very important thing that I would like to say about conversation is regarding topics of conversation. Sometimes when Robert and I go out to eat, we will look around the restaurant at couples in their 30s and older and notice that there is not much conversation happening. I would also bet that a lot of the conversations that are happening in the 40 and under set are about children. Of course you need to talk about your children sometimes. However, a date alone together is not the time. Personally, it is essential for me to have a man who reads, thinks, and has great intellectual curiosity. I am a voracious reader and I am always learning new things. I need someone to bounce ideas with, deconstruct thoughts with, and yes, even argue with in the literary sense of the word. I love debate and wrestling with new concepts and looking at things in a new and different way. Thankfully I have a husband who reads, listens to NPR, and loves to learn. What would we talk about otherwise. Currently whenever we are together we talk nonstop and we are the first people that we want to share everything with.

3. She Needs To Trust Him Totally - Honesty and Open-ness
Not much to comment on here as I think this is a no-brainer. Women need a stand-up man. One who keeps his word, is reliable, and is worthy of trust. One who comes home when he says he'll be home, one who has boundaries in ministry, and one who is honest in all relationships.

4. She Needs Enough Money To Live Comfortably - Financial Support
I take a little bit of issue with this one. I personally don't think this is one of my top 5 needs. For one thing, my profession pays more than ministry and is in high demand. I am comfortable that I can go out and make a living at any time and I don't have to depend on a man to provide that for me. I know that thought may be emasculating to many men, but my husband knows I am pretty headstrong and independent and it's okay with him. However, he has been the sole or primary provider financially for about 75% of our marriage. It has always been comforting to know that he does provide well for our family. However, in seasons of life like seminary and church planting, I am needed to assume much more financial support and that's okay too. We have had to balance things out based on what's going on in life and what God has called us to at a particular time. It was intentional that I got my master's degree before Robert went to seminary because we knew that I could work and financially support us. As a result we never had to take out a single student loan and he graduated debt free, as did I. God certainly knew what He was doing by having me "accidentally" end up back in school working on my doctorate at the same time we started praying about church planting.

The key thing about ministry that all couples should be wise about before taking the plunge is that it isn't particularly lucrative. I'm going to talk about finances in a separate post because I think it's an important issue. I think it's more important that a woman feel okay with her husband's work ethic and calling, than be okay with the finances. I guess the part of this need that kind of rubs me the wrong way is that she needs enough money to "live comfortably." I think we Americans have a very skewed and warped view of living comfortably and I don't know that our comfort is God's priority. We have traveled pretty extensively and been to some very impoverished countries like Belarus, Nicaragua, Honduras, and Mexico and it has radically changed our priorities. My dream used to be some beautifully decorated McMansion-type house with beautiful hardwood floors, granite countertops, gourmet kitchen, and two new cars. That stuff doesn't really matter to me so much anymore (although I would like hardwood floors and an ergonomic kitchen) and I know that even at our lowest financial state we lived so, so far above most of the people in the world. Instead of enough money to live comfortably, I would suggest that enough money to meet needs, plus a little extra, without significant worry would be enough. That's just my opinion though.

5. She Needs Him To Be A Good Father - Family Commitment
There's not much that is sexier than a man rocking a baby, carrying a toddler on his shoulders, or tossing a baseball with his son. Women don't want to do the parenting thing alone. They need an involved partner who shares in the joys and heartbreak of parenting. Someone who will take a turn consoling a screaming infant, someone who will help clean the up-the-back and out-the-legholes explosive diaper, and someone who will say "Let's be really quiet and make pancakes so Mommy can sleep." In my role as a speech pathologist over the years I have always admired the families in which the dad sometimes brought the kids to therapy, played with the kids in the waiting room, and showed himself to be an involved and nurturing father. Unfortunately it is the exception rather than the rule. However, God created families and He designed and special place for both mothers and fathers.

I have worked with kids all of my adult life and spent my teen years as a frequent babysitter. I have always been comfortable with kids of all ages. However, this teenager stuff, esp. dating and driving, has really thrown me for a loop. I am way out of my comfort zone. I am so thankful for a husband whose youth minister experience comes in handy! He is a genius with our teenage boys. He is good about helping me chill out about some things and helping set boundaries/standards on others. I am so thankful that he is my partner in crime.

A couple more things:
I think Harley left off a couple. Maybe I'm crazy or just more needy than I want to admit, but I have a few extra "needs."

1. Romance
Just like we can't give up on trying to look attractive just because we "caught them," guys need to continue to romance us. Just because we put their ring on our finger doesn't mean that romance is dead. Maybe this goes along with affection, but I think it is a little different. Romance means sending flowers for no reason at all. It means that the guy initiates and plans the occasional date, right down to arranging for the babysitter. Romance is flirting with each other, writing love notes, and all of the other goofy wooing behavior that occurs during the dating phase. This is why chicks like romantic comedies--we like the wooing part!

My husband does pretty darn well in this regard. I'll share two of his more stellar moments just to jog the male creative juices. The traditional gift from ages ago for the first anniversary is paper. I had no idea that Robert knew this, but somehow he did. So my first anniversary gift was paper. Most guys are thinking, "How lame." However, first of all I'm not the kind of girl who is impressed by clothes, jewelry, or expensive things. I'm pretty cheap and easy in the gift department. The card and the giftwrap are actually more important than the gift to me. But this gift contained several types of paper. I can't remember them all, but two of them were newspaper and a fine linen paper from a stationary store. In the box with the paper was a letter explaining why he thought paper was the traditional gift. He wrote about how I kept him informed and enlightened like the newspaper and added refinement and class to his life like the expensive paper. It was a very romantic and thoughtful gift.

The other moment was which in which he had arranged a night out for us. He had contacted a babysitter and we were going out to dinner. I was all dressed and ready. About 15 minutes before we were supposed to leave he said that he had to run up to church because he had forgotten to take care of something. I was so stinking mad! We were supposed to go out, I was ready, and here he was going to do some work. Hmph!! While I was stewing at home and not really wanting to go out with him, the babysitter arrived. As I opened the door I noticed she had two boxes in her hands. She gave them to me and there was a note. Robert had arranged the whole thing with her. In one box was an awesome little black dress and the other one contained *ahem* little black underthings. He had left to give me time to change and then he took me out to a much fancier restaurant than we typically would have gone to. I got over my anger and we had a great night.

2. Adventure
I think most women like consistency. I, however, am very easily bored. I crave adventure, excitement, and change. I like to go, do, and experience. In fact, boredom was my biggest fear with marriage. I knew I loved my husband, but I wondered how we could spend a lifetime together without getting bored. We started dating in 11th grade and dated throughout college without ever breaking up. However, I had a period of time during my junior year of college when I contemplated dating other people just because I was freaked out about the boredom thing. I worked through it and told him about it later...maybe even after we were married.

If I had a husband who wanted to sit at home and embrace the status quo I think I would be quite discontent. Now Robert is generally more of a homebody than I am, but he still likes to go out and have adventures. We are always trying out new hobbies, learning to eat new foods, and going new places.He is also comfortable enough to let me go on solo adventures. I have been on three Operation Smile missions (two to Nicaragua and one to Honduras) and a trip to Brazil without him. Similarly, he has been to Belarus and several trips to Nicaragua without me. This is because we currently don't have a money tree so sometimes we have to take turns. We have grown and changed and challenged each other throughout the years. Since I'm not bored after 26 years, I'm feeling pretty optimistic about the future.

3. Protection and Handyness
These are different, but kind of relate. I need to feel like my man is going to protect me and keep me safe. This was especially important when we lived in Baton Rouge during the time of Derrick Todd Lee, a serial killer. He killed several women in Baton Rouge who were near my age/build/hair color and some murders happened near our neighborhood and near LSU. It was a time of intense paranoia and fear throughout the city. I am not normally a scaredy cat and I was terrified. I was a near basketcase when Robert had to go out of town. It was very important to feel safe and protected by him. Also, protection goes into the house as well--needing a man who can fix broken garbage disposals, change spark plugs, put in a ceiling fan, and patch a hole in the wall. I know plenty of women who have to call a handyman for such stuff. I'm do glad that I married a man who can take care of most home repair jobs....although I was very nervous when we wanted to replace a gasline. Some jobs are best left to professionals.

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-Marriage 101

Warning: This may be a long one. Never mind, I know myself. It will be a long one, so I'm going ahead and taking the liberty of dividing it into 2 parts.

Disclaimer: I do not claim to have a perfect marriage. I just have an almost-perfect marriage. Okay, not almost perfect either, but I'm pretty darn pleased with my husband and would do it all again in a heartbeat. I am not a marriage authority, but I'll be writing about what works for us. A little background...we have been together for almost 26 years, married just shy of 20 years. (Yes, we dated for over 5 years which neither one of us would wish on our worst enemy. Pure torture for two people bent on making "true love wait.")

I'm basing these next couple of posts off of the book His Needs, Her Needs: How to Build an Affair-Proof Marriage by Willard Harley. Most people have a knee-jerk reaction to the notion of affair-proofing. "He loves me too much. He would never cheat on me." or "I could never, ever have a relationship with another man." People who think like that are in the biggest danger of all. We are all sinful humans who fall short every single day. Fortunately we have a God who is gracious and loving. Even so, we are all in imminent danger of infidelity. It just takes a brief season of not feeling appreciated, being bored and stale in our marriages, having a little extra attention from someone of the opposite and BOOM! We are where we never thought we'd be.

We have witnessed infidelity destroy marriages of several close friends, some of whom we thought had awesome, rock solid marriages. One of the most devastating was a youth minister friend of Robert's. We double-dated with them, this guy and Robert did an annual joint youth event every year, and we really enjoyed spending time with this couple. Imagine our surprise when we found out he was having an affair with a former youth. Devastating! Affairs are ugly things, but our human brain can rationalize just about anything. (Jeremiah 17: 9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?) Our brain can tell us "There's no harm in talking...or grabbing a cup of coffee...or sending a few texts." If we are engaging in something secret and/or that we wouldn't tell our husband about, then there is a problem. It doesn't necessarily have to involve sex per se. It also doesn't matter how bad someone's marriage may be. Bad marriages don't provide justification for an emotional or sexual affair. They only provide justification for marriage counseling. That "'Til death do us part" business is pretty hardcore.

So...any of us are just 1 step away from the potential to have an affair (check). Acknowledging that it could happen and that none of us are above it is the first step. There are some sobering stats from the the Schaeffer Institute study that I previously referenced:

* Three hundred ninety-nine (399 or 38%) of pastors said they were divorced or currently in a divorce process.
* Three hundred fifteen (315 or 30%) said they had either been in an ongoing affair or a one-time sexual encounter with a parishioner.

And research from Barna, Fuller Seminary, and Focus on the Family quoted in the same article:
*Almost forty percent polled said they have had an extra-marital affair since beginning their ministry.
*Fifty percent of pastors' marriages will end in divorce.

Obviously the risk is great. 30-40% of pastors have had an extra-marital affair since beginning ministry!! If you think it could never happen to you, think again.

So for this post I'll tackle what Harley has identified as a man's 5 greatest needs. Obviously, aside from jokes and sitcoms, men aren't stereotypes. These five needs won't hold true for every man. However, from where I'm sitting (clueless female) I do think they seem pretty spot on and they are at least a good jumping off point. I can't totally effect how my husband responds to me, but I can have total control in the way that I respond to him.

Here are the top five needs of men according to Harley:

1. The First Thing He Can't Do Without - Sexual Fulfillment

Okay, we've all heard the comment that men think about sex every 7 seconds. That's false. I think it's really only every 12 seconds. Just kidding--sort of. Anyway, sex is a big deal for guys. I dare say it is a big deal for women as well, or at least should be, but with guys it is #1. From my limited understanding of the male species, sex isn't just about the feel-good physical feelings for the husband (although that is certainly a part of it), but it's also an important way that a man communicates love to his wife and feels loved by his wife. Quite literally, the act of sex is about becoming one not only physically, but emotionally and spiritually as well. See my brilliant husband's thoughts on sex in the context of marriage here.

Okay, we get it. Men like sex. What does that mean for wives? It means we need to be a willing partner! It should not be a chore or another thing on the "to do" list, although there will be those occasional seasons of life. I would suspect that most men don't want a passive, "Well, I'll do it because you want to" kind of wife either, but an active participant who actually enjoys it. I'm not going into any great detail because my in-laws read my blog and they are probably a bit repulsed or unnerved right now. However, I will say this: Sex begets sex. The more often a couple engages in bedroom recreation, the more likely it is to continue to happen.

Women multitask and have a hard time switching gears. Sometimes when our husbands are making their move, we are thinking about what we need to get at the grocery store, who is going to take whom to the orthodontist, and when we can fit in a oil change. It's quite a stretch to go from queen of the kitchen to mistress of the boudoir with the flip of a switch. The old saying that men are microwaves and women are crockpots is true. However, the brain is the most important sex organ on a female and choosing to mentally make that switch is quite possible. Again, although I personally have some good tips for that I am not going to share them at the risk of total embarrassment. I will suggest a wonderful book that we frequently give as a wedding gift, called A Celebration of Sex: A Guide to Enjoying God's Gift of Sexual Intimacy. It covers everything from a biblical view of sex, sex techniques, self-image, dealing with past abuse, getting in the mood, to sex during pregnancy and various stages of parenting, etc.

2. He Needs Her To Be His Playmate - Recreational Companionship

Playing together...it was the foundation of dating and that initial falling in love phase. However, with mortgages, kids, sporting events, homework, church, jobs, etc. sometimes it falls to the bottom of the list. However, I started noticing that my husband liked to have me with him when he was going an activity or a hobby. Even I didn't necessarily engage in the hobby, he wanted my presence. I thought it was kind of odd, as I am one who likes my by-myself time, but now I take it as the ultimate compliment He likes me and wants me to be with him.

So we need to have mutual hobbies and interests. That doesn't mean that we have to share every interest together. I'm pretty sure that he isn't going to take up quilting and I am positive that I will never go hunting. However, we do enjoy cross-country skiing, canoeing, and watching movies together. We are just starting to run together and we ordered bikes last week so that we can start biking. A date that we periodically do is going to Lowe's and wander the aisles for hours planning the dream house that we'll never have. It's a cheap date (can't beat free!) and is a great time to just be together and talk. I will say that he is much better about watching chick flicks with me than I am about watching Dude movies with him. I'm working on that. I think if I quilt or crochet that I can sit beside him during a horrid war movie, science fiction, or fantasy flick. I'm still growing in this area.

3. He Needs A Good-looking Wife - An Attractive Spouse

Looks aren't everything. However, something about the way we look is what first caught our husbands' eye. Then later, it was our scintillating personalities and deep souls. Anyway, our guys like having a little arm candy as sexist as that may sound. In almost every species it is the male that is the most attractive. However, in humans, women tend to be the pretty ones so a man with a beautiful wife is the equivalent of a male peacock spreading his feathers and strutting.

I am under no illusion that I look like Heidi Klum or Gisele Bundchen. I know I am pretty average. I know this because I get told at least once a month that I look like someone's sister's aunt's best friend. However, I have to do the best I can with what I have. I've been a stay-at-home mom. I've done the jeans and t-shirt/sweatshirt uniform for a few years and I know the temptation. When I worked at a hospital and wore scrubs I lived in those. My husband HATED me wearing scrubs all of the time, but they were so darn comfortable. It was like wearing pajamas to work. (However, I have always, always fixed my hair and put on make-up just about every day unless I am doing yard work or something.)

I am reformed though. In some ways I have Clinton and Stacey to thank. Through their show I have learned how to dress my body in comfortable and stylish clothes. I still wear jeans, but they aren't "mom jeans." They are in style, but age appropriate, as there is nothing worse than a 42-year-old trying to dress like a 22-year-old. Pathetic! I only wear printed T-shirts if I am working out or in the yard. Otherwise I wear comfortable clothes appropriate to the situation that look good. I always dress up when we are going out on a date. I spend just as much time and effort getting ready to go out as I did when we were dating.

I have also done the slow creep of weight thing. Many women blame pregnancy and as a general rule, I think that is a cop out. If a woman is a good weight going into pregnancy, stays active throughout and eats wisely, then she shouldn't gain a whole lot of extra weight. Then, breastfeeding it the ultimate calorie burner! With both of my children I weighed less when they were 2-3 months old than I did before I got pregnant. However, it is no lie that our metabolism slows down. I was oh-so-gradually putting on weight and since I was wearing drawstring scrubs I didn't realize it until the grim reality of real waistbands. So, eat less and move more. That's the only way to get it off. Again, not trying to be some ideal, but just having a healthy body. And a woman with a healthy strong body is usually more confident and feels more desirable, which will also influence self-image and sex. It really doesn't take a whole lot of extra effort to woo our husbands once again. Plus, it's pretty exciting if we can still take their breath away after years and years together.

4. He Needs Peace And Quiet - Domestic Support

Hmmm...this one will be a stretch for me. I probably fail miserably here. First of all, I like to talk. That doesn't exactly nurture peace and quiet. I do know that Robert prefers quiet to rowdy and oft times our household is the antithesis of that. I'm still working on that and it will have to be a life goal.

As for the domestic support I think this is referring to pretty stereotypical gender roles. I am a feminist in that I believe (strongly) that a woman can do and be anything she wants to. However, I also pretty much embrace the household stereotypes--not because I have to, but because I want to. I want to be the one who cooks a meal, keeps the household running, and mothers everyone. Almost all of our married life with children I have either been a stay-at-home mom, worked very part-time (8 hrs/week), and then official part-time (22 hrs/week). I only started my first full-time job since kids 2.5 years ago when Robert became a church planter. This is because our children are older and church planters aren't exactly rolling in the bucks, esp. when the only church members originally all have the same last name of Terrell and 2 of the 4 are dependents.

Anyway, I still had the mindset that even though I was working full-time that I should still keep the house running. After a few months of that we had to meet and reestablish roles and responsibilities. I still do the lion's share of the cooking, which I enjoy, and the laundry. We all have to pitch in on housecleaning, including the kids. Robert does most of the doctor/dentist/ortho appts and various kid-carting after school. It's a constantly evolving thing...and I'm still working on the balance there.

5. He Needs Her To Be Proud Of Him - Admiration

Lastly comes admiration. Men like to be the hero and save the day. When we admire and respect our men it thrills their souls.. It's especially important to praise them to others in their presence, Not just for the sake of doing it, but real authentic praise.

I honestly have it so good, that sometimes I refrain a bit because I think people get sick of hearing it and/or they think I'm lying. Seriously though, my husband is pretty much an awesome husband, father, and human being. He is funny, one of the smartest people I know, and he is a servant. He loves the unlovable and champions the forgotten. He has taught me so much just through us living life together.

The opposite of admiration is nagging. I'd like to say I never do that, but I did it just this morning. I felt immediate remorse and I did apologize, but words can't be taken back and they get demoralizing over time. We've had some friends who talk negatively about their husbands IN FRONT OF THEM frequently and you can just see the devastation such comments create. Or they talk about their husbands like they are another child or are incapable of having an original thought. I am thinking of one couple in particular like that...and he's one who ended up having an affair. Is it any wonder why?

It's a pretty tall order, but I know I periodically need a refresher as to what my husband needs from me to feel valued, loved, and esteemed. If he feels that way, then it is less likely that he will look elsewhere for what he is missing. Some PWs get angry about how much time their husbands spend at church or ministering to others (more about that later) that they decide to get bitter and nag, withhold sex, give him the silent treatment, etc. to "punish" him. What happens instead is that everyone is punished and she has just pushed him away, both figuratively and literally. May we be wise and careful with the marriage relationship that God has entrusted us and do everything for His glory.

Next up...What women need

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-Fishbowl Living

Being a family in ministry has been compared to living in a fishbowl. Everyone is watching. Watching what you do and what you say. Watching to catch you making a mistake. Watching to see if you are human. Watching to see if you yell at your children or nag your husband or curse when you hit your thumb with a hammer (yes, yes, and no if you are keeping score).

I think the Bible is clear that people in ministry leadership positions are held to a higher standard.

James 3:1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

However, in those verses it seems that it is God who will be doing the judging and holding teachers to the higher standard. Also, it is the teachers who will be held to this high standard. (I think minister/pastor also fits here since they do typically teach). It is not the teacher's spouse or children or parents or cousins held to a high standard, but the teacher him/herself.Now if the spouse chooses (operative word) to assume a teaching role, then those verses certainly apply as well.

I know a lot of PWs feel like they live in a fishbowl. I do think that's reality for many of them as well. I guess to some extent it's a reality for us too. However, I have either been naive or blissfully unaware. I suppose that people have talked about my husband, me, and our children behind our backs. However, what I don't know doesn't effect me. I do know that at one point when we were going through a crisis with extended family people thought that Robert and I were having marital problems (we weren't). I only knew that because a friend told me that those were the rumors circulating. Wouldn't it have been nice if people had been concerned and asked us instead of just questioning to each other...or worse offering it as a "prayer request." That's Christian code for gossip.

I guess the biggest thing about living in a fishbowl is that I don't really care. It's not entirely honest of me to say that I don't care what others think of me because I do. I want people to like me. I want people to find me friendly, kind, witty, compassionate, loving, etc. However, first of all I am not always those things and certainly not all at the same time. Many times I am grumpy, selfish, and whiny. However, my mama didn't raise no fool. I know that not everyone will like me, or approve of me, and that some people in fact with dislike or even hate me. And I am fine with that...really. While I like approval and admiration, it really only matters to me that I have it first from God, then from my family. Of course friends factor in that as well, but since friendship is a choice I certainly hope that my friends do like me...or else they wouldn't be friends with me.

My "love language" is words of affirmation. I don't need gifts or big outward shows of love and affection, but a well placed "Atta Girl!" will do wonders for my self-esteem and endear me to you forever. Even though that is the case, I don't know whether it is age, wisdom...or maybe apathy, but if you don't like me or approve of me I just build a bridge and get over it. This is especially true of those people who are just naturally critical. I have more important things to worry about than how I can make everyone like me. Also, I really relate to this quote from one of my bestest friend's mom, "You would not worry about what people think of you, if you knew how seldom they do."

The whole fishbowl concept is rather moot now as church planters. We are just regular joes, part of the pack, and I certainly don't feel any fishbowlness in our current situation. Many of the people who attend our church have seen me with no make-up, morning hair, and sleep wrinkles from overnight events like Trivia or mission trips. They have spent time in our home and us in theirs. We have worked together, cooked together, etc. We just do life. Honestly, I find that students are more freaked out than church members about me living my regular life. Several have expressed shocked to see me in jeans or run into me at Target, like I live in "business casual" clothes and never leave the campus.

The only interesting thing about the fishbowl has been related to nosy neighbors. In Texas, we lived in a parsonage and some church members lived just two houses down. We'd run into them and several times they said things like, "We saw your lights on at 2:00 am. Hope everything is okay." (Translation: I'm nosy and dying to know what you were doing. Incidentally we had a baby who was just a couple of weeks old, so it was probably something really exciting like nursing, changing a diaper, or pacing the floor trying to get a screaming baby to sleep.). These were the same people who would call if we forgot to put our garbage out on trash day just to make sure we were alright. Um yeah, we just forgot it was Tuesday. You just can't make this stuff up.

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-Firing

Since I covered the hiring process yesterday, I thought it only natural to talk about firing today. For one, they are at opposite ends of the employment spectrum, the one that begins with optimism and hope, but ends in devastation. Also, hiring and firing rhyme. As a loyal Dr. Seuss groupie I appreciate rhyme, especially of made-up words like nookgase/bookcase. But I digress...

So, being fired in ministry is not such a cheery topic, but an all too familiar occurrence for many pastors. Imagine having a job in which you have 60 or 250 or 700 or 1500 bosses, depending on the size of the church. Consider that there is no way to make that many people happy and content all of the time. And ponder that there are some people who prefer to find fault with others as if it is a recreational hobby. That's a taste of the looming cloud of being ousted. Here are some stats from a study by the Schaeffer Institute

Out of the 1050 pastors we surveyed during two pastors conferences held in Pasadena, California, 825, or 78% (326 in 2005 and 499 in 2006) said they were forced to resign from a church at least once. Sixty-three percent (63%) said they had been fired from their pastoral position at least twice. In the survey, we asked why they were fired—from the reasons given by the church board versus what they felt the reason was. We laid out 15 categories with a blank space to fill out what we may have missed: poor leadership, conflict with key staff or lay leadership, gossip, lack of funding, doctrinal divide, hardship on family, not connecting with membership, power plays, church council refusing to resolve conflict, resistance to their teaching, resistance to their leadership style or vision, failure to teach biblically, poor people skills, failure to follow job description, inappropriate relationship, or other sin. They gave us a top five main explanations on a scale of one to five, with few (8%) reporting on any of the other categories. These stats are based on number one response; at the same time, over 70% of pastors stated three of these five reasons. Here is the order (these findings have been retested and back up in internet polls done since 1998, and church survey studies done since 1980:

1. Four hundred twelve (412 or 52%) stated that the number one reason was organizational and control issues. A conflict arose that forced them out based on who was going to lead and manage the church—pastor, elder, key lay person, faction, ...
2. One hundred ninety (190 or 24%) stated that the number one reason was their church was already in such a significant degree of conflict, the pastor’s approach could not resolve it (over 80% of pastors stated this as number 2 if not already stated as number one, and for the rest, it was number 3!).
3. One hundred nineteen (119 or 14%) stated the number one reason to be that the church was resistance to their leadership, vision, teaching, or to change, or that their leadership was too strong or too fast.
4. Sixty four (64 or 8%) stated the number one reason to be that the church was not connecting with them on a personal level or they could not connect with them, or the church over-admired the previous pastor and would not accept them.
5. Forty (40 or 5%) stated that the number one reason was not having the appropriate relational or connecting skills as a pastor. (It is interesting that no one mentioned lack of teaching ability—only that their teaching was not accepted. Could this be pride?)

Some personal background here first. Robert has never been fired or asked to resign. We have been fortunate with being able to leave every church on good terms and have been sent on our way with the church's blessing. So, even though we haven't experienced this firsthand, I want to write about living under the crippling fear that it CAN happen at anytime.

Robert's first position after we were married was a part-time seminary job and there was no intense pressure there. However, when he assumed his first full-time ministry position I was totally unprepared. I have always thought that my husband hung the moon.(Okay almost always...except when he leaves only 4 squares of toilet paper on the roll or forgets to take out the trash). It came as a total shock that not everyone else felt that way. He's a really likable and congenial guy. Most people do like him. However, there are always those few, who no matter what, are going to be contentious or find fault. Someone once told me that those people were "heavenly sandpaper"--very irritating and rub you the wrong, but sharpen your edges and make you into the person you are supposed to be. I had to embrace that attitude to avoid being driven crazy by some people who lived to find fault.

We had the woman who would bring a tape measure every Sunday to measure the placement of the Bible and floral arrangement on the communion table in front of the church. If they had been moved even 1/2 inch from where she had determined they should be, then it was a national crisis. One church almost resorted to fisticuffs regarding whether the wood in the sanctuary should be painted or left stained. (I know you are dying to know the results. The au naturel camp won.) On a more personal level, we had a family pull out of hosting teens at their house for DiscipleNOW because they didn't like the name of the event, Jesus is for Losers. People complained that Robert was too casual or too serious or that the word "fart" was used at a youth function or that he was too Catholic (How dare he talk about the origins of Ash Wednesday!). Robert's personal favorite was the underhanded "prayer request" that was submitted complaining about Crud Wars, the huge youth food fight, and how it wasted food that could go to starving people. What they failed to realize is that most of the food was one step from the garbage and the result of people cleaning out their frig and/or it was produce thrown out by grocery stores.

Every time he would come home and report a complaint my heart would plummet and I would think, "Here we go. Now the church is going to run us off and force him to resign." It became a vicious cycle because he wanted to share his frustrations with me as his wife, I would freak out and panic, which then made him not want to tell me so he wouldn't worry me, so then that would create distance between us, and the cycle would perpetuate. It took me about 2-3 years (actually a fast learning curve, all things considered) to realize that:
*He wasn't going to be fired over a few little things.
*Some people live to complain. They will always be that way and there's nothing you can do about it.
*Worry and fear are wasted energy. God actually totally freed me from worry about 7 or 8 years ago, but that's a different post for a different day.
*God placed us at the church, He loves us, He'll take care of us
*Don't sweat the small stuff.

Now, referring back to the quotes from the article above, I want to make some comments. 78% of pastors polled had been fired once and 63% twice. The top 5 reasons given were: organizational and control issues, church in conflict before the pastor came and the pastor couldn't resolve it, church resistance to leadership/vision/teaching/change or leadership was too strong/fast, difficulty with pastor and church connecting, and poor relational/connecting skills. I hold these truths to be self-evident: that there are some people who live life with a bee in their bonnet and like it, that pride is one of the greatest threats to most pastors, and everyone wants to win and/or be in charge. When you mix those 3 ingredients together, or even two of them, the result is the perfect storm. Furthermore, if one looks at the 5 reasons given above then it is easy to see that they really all influence each other. For example, a pastor sees a church in conflict (2) and guided by either idealism or a messiah-complex, thinks he is just the one to fix the situation. During the interview process he honestly shares his vision for addressing the conflict and everyone loves his ideas. He is called to the church and begins to implement that vision--maybe a little too fast (3) or maybe without greasing the proper wheels (4, 5). People start complaining ("but we've never done it that way before"), the deacons/elders are getting pressured so they start pressuring the pastor and BOOM! Organization/control conflict and chaos (1) ensue.

I don't want to be insensitive at all to some of the wonderful pastors who have been strong-armed out of churches for wrong reasons and ridiculous power plays. There are some real tragedies out there and some churches that will have to answer for their behavior. There have been malicious, slanderous, and just plain mean church bodies, or at least factions within, that have devastated innocent men and their families. On the other hand, there are some pastors who go in with an agenda and ready to swoop in and change the church and save the day. In our experience, change needs to happen very slowly, if at all. It take years just to develop that initial trust with the church members. No significant change should be introduced without that bedrock of mutual trust. If the situation is too bad to be tolerated without change, then perhaps that wasn't the right church position for the pastor. Just like you wouldn't marry someone thinking, "This guy will be alright once I change x, y, and z," a pastor shouldn't go into church with a huge agenda of change.

Also, I think that some of the firing can be negated if the hiring process is more contemplative. One thing that I have always appreciated about Robert is that he goes into investigative journalist mode when interviewing. Not only does he ask the current staff, lay leadership, and search committee hard questions (e.g., What are the 5 biggest problems in the church?), but he always called former pastors and staff and got the real dirt on past and current church dealings. His mindset was that he was interviewing them every bit as much as they were interviewing us. I think that foresight has significantly helped us avoid some potential minefields. We generally had a good picture of the good, bad, and ugly of every church and it was pretty accurate.

Bottom line is that the church body and the pastor are people, people are sinful and do stupid things, but God is ultimately a God of reconciliation.

If churches would truly seek God during the hiring process, trust the leader that God gives them, pray, support and encourage him and his family, and ascribe to the principles of Matthew 18: 15-17 if they have a grievance...
AND
If pastors would humble themselves, serve, invest in relationships, use authority wisely, grace scandalously, and listen carefully to the Holy Spirit...
Then hopefully some of this firing and forcing to resign could be reduced. It's a continual learning and growth process for all of us.

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-The Hiring Process

Overall, I think PWs create more drama and make pastor wifedom seem like so much more of a burden than it is. However, the hiring process is a horse of a different color. In what other profession is the spouse also interviewed, the children must receive a stamp of approval, and the applicant is voted on by hundreds of people? The closest parallel I can think of is politics, actually...which I loathe.

Just for the record, we are Southern Baptist so I can only speak from that viewpoint. Different denominations do things different ways. For example, United Methodists are appointed and can be moved around by their districts (I think) and it is not a pastor or church decision. Many denominations do the same song and dance as Baptists do though. Here's the general process:

1. Churches have a need and start soliciting resumes. They usually do this through the state association, the 6 Southern Baptist seminaries, and word of mouth. Baptists are very well connected. FYI, ministry resumes are more like curriculum vitaes than traditional resumes--several pages long. And the applicant is strongly encouraged to attach a photo of himself and/or the family. Information about the wife and children are also including on the resume. No, I'm not joking.
2. There is a search committee of various church members who volunteer for the job. They go through the resumes and start making cuts. Usually they narrow down the resumes to a handful and start doing some phone interviews. Further cuts are made, usually down to 2-3 applicants.
3. The church brings in those applicants one at a time and interviews them. It's usually 1-2 days and only the search committee interviews the prospective minister at this time.
4. After those interviews, the committee selects one candidate to bring "in view of a call." This is the real deal. Usually when a minister comes to a church in view of a call it means that the committee really likes him and he thinks that he could really mesh well with this church.
5. At this interview, the whole family is brought in. The ministerial candidate is interviewed more by the search committee, by the church staff, by the leaderships body (deacons, elders) and then meets with certain groups of the church for a forum (youth, music ministry, senior adults, etc.). It is a 2-3 days process. During this time, the wife also has a brief interview with the committee and meets all of the staff and other groups. The wife is usually asked questions like "What do you feel your role is in your husband's ministry? What are your spiritual gifts? How do you support your husband?" At some point the candidate preaches, teaches, leads worship, whatever and addresses the whole church, sharing his testimony, philosophy of ministry, etc. Oft times the wife also briefly shares her testimony. At the very least, she and the children are paraded in front of everyone a couple of times.
6. The "view of a call" interview lasts all weekend and typically culminates in a church-wide vote on Sunday. The candidate is informed that day if he was voted in by majority rule or not. Most ministers want at least a 90% vote before accepting a position.
7. The whole process from resume to hire can take anywhere from a month or two to almost a year.

That's it in a nutshell. During the big interview weekend it is important to remember that every meal is shared with the church members and different groups of people. I actually think it is kind of fun, because I am very social and like meeting new people. However, you must factor the kids into the mix. During our two biggest interview experiences we had very young children. And as anyone with young children knows, they get whiny and cranky when out of their element, tired from traveling, on a different schedule, and around different people. The one time they need to act their most angelic, all forces on earth conspire to make them irritable little punks. While dad is off impressing everyone and schmoozing, mom is left to juggle temperamental children and make small talk with strangers.

Fortunately, we have always had good interview experiences with lovely, gracious people. They were always accommodating to our children and respectful of important things like nap schedules (only the kids, not mine unfortunately). There is a certain "dog and pony show" or sorority rush aura to any interview experience, but all in all ours have been pretty authentic. However, not without a few snags along the way, for me personally as the PW. When Robert was interviewing in Louisiana and the whole family had to fly down, I happened to have pink eye. I couldn't wear any make-up (frightening in and of itself) and one eye was all red, crusty, and weepy. When Robert interviewed at a church in St. Louis (turn down the offer), Noah left his beloved blankie in the hotel and we realized it on the way home. We had to pay to have it Fed Ex-ed to us. However, by far, my biggest personal trauma and Robert's greatest embarrassed happened during the interview in Missouri.

I'll tell Robert's story first. He was interviewing to be the youth minister--his first full-time ministry position out of seminary. There was a big Q & A thing with the youth and their parents. One of the questions asked was "Do you like barn swinging?" Robert mumbled something about how he thought he had heard of them, but wasn't sure if he like th

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-The Hiring Process

Overall, I think PWs create more drama and make pastor wifedom seem like so much more of a burden than it is. However, the hiring process is a horse of a different color. In what other profession is the spouse also interviewed, the children must receive a stamp of approval, and the applicant is voted on by hundreds of people? The closest parallel I can think of is politics, actually...which I loathe.

Just for the record, we are Southern Baptist so I can only speak from that viewpoint. Different denominations do things different ways. For example, United Methodists are appointed and can be moved around by their districts (I think) and it is not a pastor or church decision. Many denominations do the same song and dance as Baptists do though. Here's the general process:

1. Churches have a need and start soliciting resumes. They usually do this through the state association, the 6 Southern Baptist seminaries, and word of mouth. Baptists are very well connected. FYI, ministry resumes are more like curriculum vitaes than traditional resumes--several pages long. And the applicant is strongly encouraged to attach a photo of himself and/or the family. Information about the wife and children are also including on the resume. No, I'm not joking.
2. There is a search committee of various church members who volunteer for the job. They go through the resumes and start making cuts. Usually they narrow down the resumes to a handful and start doing some phone interviews. Further cuts are made, usually down to 2-3 applicants.
3. The church brings in those applicants one at a time and interviews them. It's usually 1-2 days and only the search committee interviews the prospective minister at this time. The committee may also go observe the candidate at his home church preaching or teaching. It is usually a sneaky, subterfugey kind of visit.
4. After those interviews, the committee selects one candidate to bring "in view of a call." This is the real deal. Usually when a minister comes to a church in view of a call it means that the committee really likes him and he thinks that he could really mesh well with this church.
5. At this interview, the whole family is brought in. The ministerial candidate is interviewed more by the search committee, by the church staff, by the leaderships body (deacons, elders) and then meets with certain groups of the church for a Q & A (youth, music ministry, senior adults, etc.). It is a 2-3 day process. During this time, the wife also has a brief interview with the committee and meets all of the staff and other groups. The wife is usually asked questions like "What do you feel your role is in your husband's ministry? What are your spiritual gifts? How do you support your husband?" At some point the candidate preaches, teaches, leads worship, whatever and addresses the whole church, sharing his testimony, philosophy of ministry, etc. Oft times the wife also briefly shares her testimony. At the very least, she and the children are paraded in front of everyone a couple of times.
6. The "view of a call" interview lasts all weekend and typically culminates in a church-wide vote on Sunday. The candidate is informed that day if he was voted in by majority rule or not. Most ministers want at least a 90% vote before accepting a position.
7. The whole process from resume to hire can take anywhere from a month or two to almost a year.

That's it in a nutshell. During the big interview weekend it is important to remember that every meal is shared with the church members and different groups of people. I actually think it is kind of fun, because I am very social and like meeting new people. However, you must factor the kids into the mix. During our two biggest interview experiences we had very young children. And as anyone with young children knows, they get whiny and cranky when out of their element, tired from traveling, on a different schedule, and around different people. The one time they need to act their most angelic, all forces on earth conspire to make them irritable little punks. While dad is off impressing everyone and schmoozing, mom is left to juggle temperamental children and make small talk with strangers.

Fortunately, we have always had good interview experiences with lovely, gracious people. They were always accommodating to our children and respectful of important things like nap schedules (only the kids, not mine unfortunately). There is a certain "dog and pony show" or sorority rush aura to any interview experience, but all in all ours have been pretty authentic. However, not without a few snags along the way, for me personally as the PW. When Robert was interviewing in Louisiana and the whole family had to fly down, I happened to have pink eye. I couldn't wear any make-up (frightening in and of itself) and one eye was all red, crusty, and weepy. When Robert interviewed at a church in St. Louis (turned down the offer), Noah left his beloved blankie in the hotel and we realized it on the way home. We had to pay to have it Fed Ex-ed to us. However, by far, my biggest personal trauma and Robert's greatest embarrassment happened during the interview in Missouri. It will be important to remember that at the time of the Missouri interview we only had Adam and he was about 7 months old.

I'll tell Robert's story first. He was interviewing to be the youth minister--his first full-time ministry position out of seminary. There was a big Q & A thing with the youth and their parents. One of the questions asked was "Do you like barn swinging?" Robert mumbled something about how he thought he had heard of them, but wasn't sure if he like their music or not. The thing is, barn swinging--actually swinging from huge swings in a barn and dropping into a pit filled with mattresses or hay--is actually a recreational activity in Missouri. There are barn swinging places that you pay to go to. So, of course when Robert thought they were a band everyone died laughing. At this same Q & A thing I was asked to get up and share my testimony and a little about myself. I really don't mind talking in front of large groups at all and it doesn't make me nervous. I do it professionally all of the time. However, I knew that the way people perceived me could have a potential effect on my husband's employment, so I was a bit more nervous than usual. I'm up there talking, things are going well, and then...UH-OH...I feel that familiar pins and needles sensation in my chest. Yes, you guessed it, my letdown reflex had kicked in because of nerves and milk was now pouring out of my left breast. SInce Adam was 7-months-old breastfeeding had been well established, I no longer needed nursing pads, and I hadn't sprung a surprise leak in months. That day was different though. I had on a dark green silk dress and I immediately crossed both arms across my chest (hard!) to try to stop the milk flow. I'm sure my body language screamed "distant, cold, uptight" to everyone. I quickly stammered my way through the rest of my spiel, grabbed Robert and whispered my panicked plight in his ear, and held my arm and a punch cup awkwardly in front of my left boob and shaking hands with my right hand for the next 15 minutes. At that point, I finally had to explain to someone that I needed my baby and I needed to leave and change clothes ASAP. That someone happened to be the senior pastor. It was so traumatic on a thousand different levels. Nonetheless, Robert was offered the position and I lived to tell the story.

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives: Church Roles

Here's a job description for a pastor's wife (PW) from a Time Magazine article that I'll discuss in a later post:
HELP WANTED: Pastor's wife. Must sing, play music, lead youth groups, raise seraphic children, entertain church notables, minister to other wives, have ability to recite Bible backward and choreograph Christmas pageant. Must keep pastor sated, peaceful and out of trouble. Difficult colleagues, demanding customers, erratic hours. Pay: $0.

That's really pretty par for the course. It seems like in most traditional churches that the PW is expected to play the piano, teach Sunday school, sing in the choir, run the nursery, and raise perfect children. I have done many of those things. Here's a rundown on various PW roles and responsibilities I have assumed in the four churches in which my husband has been employed: nursery worker, adult SS teacher, choir member, AWANAs Chums leader, VBS Musical Director, children's choir teacher, youth SS teacher, youth chaperon, youth accountability leader, adult SS teacher, women's Bible study leader, VBS teacher, choir, handbell choir.

I filled these various roles during different seasons of life. Sometimes I was a full-time working wife putting my hubby through seminary and commuting 45 miles one way, plus all of the church stuff. Through other times I was a stay-at-home mom with a toddler. Then I was a part-time working mom with two rugrats. Currently in our church plant my roles include making homemade baked goods for our hospitality table two Sundays a month, working in the nursery as needed, picking up students at the university and taking them back every Sunday, and I have led women's Bible study.

I've worn a lot of hats, filled a lot of shoes, and taken on a lot of roles in the church. However, here's what I've learned.
1. I don't have to do it all.
2. Even if no one else steps up, I don't have to have to always swoop in and save the day and fill the empty slot.
3. I don't have to do things that I am not gifted in or called to.
4. Guilt is not from God.
5. My family comes first.
6. Busy-ness in the church is not next to godliness and in fact oftentimes, excessive church activity can pull me away from God.
7. And here's the big one: It's okay to say NO...and I don't have to provide a reason.

When Robert first became a youth minister while in seminary in Texas, I was all about be Susie PW. I did everything anyone remotely asked of me. For the most part I enjoyed it. However, there were two things that I was pressured into that in hindsight I should have refused. The first is that "there was no one else" to direct the VBS musical so it fell in my lap. I can read music and I can sing, but not performance-type singing. I had to teach about 50 kids to sing, dance, and act in a week. To top things off, I was in the first trimester of pregnancy. I was never sick when pregnant, but I was utterly exhausted! I was working full-time and had a killer commute. Doing something way out of my comfort zone and skillset was the last thing I needed on my plate. The other thing was that I was begged to be the lead in our Christmas play. We were at a small rural church with a median age of about 65 years. I was in the choir. As mentioned previously I can carry a tune, but I don't sing powerfully or particularly beautiful, and I certainly don't sing for other people unless in a group. However, the Christmas program was kind of a modern day retelling of the Christmas story with this husband and pregnant wife and their daughter seeking out a hotel when their car broke down. Not only was I one of just 3 women in the church actually of child-bearing age, but by this time I happened to be 6 months pregnant. Perfect casting! Did I mention that I don't sing solos? I also don't act. Even doing skits sends me into a panic. Now here I was the lead in the Christmas play with a solo and a harmonized duet with my "husband" who was actually about 10 years older than me and married to the choir director. We had to gaze adoringly into each other's eyes and sing to each other and then have this big "embrace." I'm breaking into hives just thinking about it. According to Robert, I barely made eye contact with him at our wedding, and now I have to make goo-goo eyes to a guy I barely know while his wife directs us? I remember practicing it at dress rehearsal with everyone snickering and my big hard belly right there in the midst of things, as I prayed for the floor to open up and swallow me. I remember someone videotaped the darn thing and asked if I wanted to watch. No! Never! And if it were to ever appear on youtube I would not be responsible for my actions.

Fast forward through the time in Missouri where I was a VBS teacher and/or missions leader to Louisiana where I was a VBS teacher....then BOOM!! An epiphany! I don't like VBS. Yes, I think I am really good at working with children of all ages. I get kids. I can relate to them. I can make learning fun. However, VBS sucks the life out of me. I don't like it and even more than that, I really don't believe in VBS philosophically in the traditional sense. At the churches where we were serving at the time, VBS was basically a free babysitter and something fun for the church kids to do in the summer. It was a lot of work and a lot of money for kids who already knew the same 5 Bible stories to hear them once more, eat some cookies, and make a craft. (For the record, I am not inherently opposed to VBS. Depending on the community it can fill a real need. However, I am much more a fan of Backyard Bible Clubs. Instead of making unchurched kids come to us, why don't we go to them?).

So I had my epiphany and when it was time to sign up for VBS, I didn't. I was a PW who didn't work at VBS. Scandalous!! And you know what? I'm pretty sure that God still loves me. I also didn't feel the need to give a reason. "No, I'm not going to help out this year." That's it. No justification. No guilt. Wow!! It is for freedom I have been set free. (Gal. 5:1).

From then on, I only did what I felt gifted to do and passionate about. Does that mean that I never have done things out of my comfort zone? No--I think God pulls and pushes us and challenges us to do things we have never done before and things that we may not necessarily like. It's just that I was free not to do things just because PEOPLE expected me to do them. No doubt that God has a sense of humor. I married a youth minister. Know what age group in church terrifies me the most? Yep, youth! However, I have been a youth chaperon, led youth accountability groups, and taught youth SS for over 10 years. That's way out of my comfort zone. I don't even have the spiritual gift of middle school!

I do think that every PW needs to have some active role in ministry and service. However, I think the role she assumes is ultimately between her and the Lord. It could be leading a Bible study or washing dishes after Wednesday night supper. It might be in front of a crowd or it might be behind the scenes. And I don't think the PW needs to be involved in ministry merely because she is a PW. I think she needs to be involved in ministry because she is a believer and part of the local church body. Period. The same rules apply for all church members.

Ultimately, that's the church role of a PW---to be a good, active church member. Nothing more and no less than would be expected of any other church member. And I have found it beneficial to state that up front during the hiring and interview process, but that's another post for another day...

The Secret Lives of Pastors' Wives-An Introduction

The 5 regular and loyal readers of my blog know that I blog in fits and starts. I have been blogging for several years. I rarely have ever blogged daily. However, sometimes I blog several times a week. Other times I will go a few months without blogging. There's not really a method to the madness. It has more to do with what is going on in my life at the moment. I always have a lot I want to say--it's just a matter of finding the time to type it all out. However, I want to do a series of blogs on the myths, misconceptions, and truths of being a pastor's wife. One must remember when reading this that I am only one person and these are MY thoughts, feelings, and personal experiences. Also, I tend to have some different, unconventional, and not so popular views on roles and ministry.

So, by way of introduction, I have been a married to a pastor for 18 years. (We've been married almost 20 years, but for a couple he was putting me through grad school working as an insurance adjuster or he was a full-time seminary student). I was one of the fortunate ones who knew I was marrying someone who was called into full-time vocational ministry. Some women marry men who are called to ministry after the fact and it's kind of sprung on them. Robert was specifically called to youth ministry. While he got an M.Div. in seminary, all of his electives were specific to youth ministry. He was a part-time youth minister in college and through most of seminary. He has served as a full-time Associate Pastor/Youth Minister at two churches in Missouri and Louisiana, where he was for six and seven years, respectively. For the past 2.5 years he has been a church planter/lead pastor.

Many pastor's wives believe that being the wife of a pastor is a calling of its own. I do not. I am not called to be the wife of a pastor anymore than I would be called to be the wife of a teacher or dentist or salesman. I am just Robert's wife and he just so happens to be a pastor. I am not only a wife. I am a daughter, a sister, a mother, a friend, a woman, a speech-language pathologist, a professor, a quilter, a reader, etc. Being a wife is one of the many hats I wear. Being the wife of a pastor does not define me or my role in the church. If "pastor's wife" was my identity, what would it mean for me if Robert were no longer a pastor?

Now that doesn't mean that I haven't made any concessions in marrying a pastor. In college I was a pre-med double major in biology and English with aspirations of being a neurologist or neonatalogist. Once we fell in love and started talking marriage, I knew that the minister-physician combo was not a good one. Simultaneously, I was in the thick of organic chemistry which I detested with the fury of a thousand suns and still had 2 more chemistry and 3 more physics classes to take. I also struggled with how being a physician would figure into being a mom as well. Through a combination of all of those factors I changed my major and never looked back. I realize that I would have been bored being a neurologist and overworked and have no family time as a neonatalogist. Instead I love, love, love my career!

The role of a pastor's wife is one that I will tackle in a later post. For now I just wanted to establish that I personally don't consider it a role or a calling. As a wife I am called to be a helpmate, a lover, and a friend to my husband. As a Christian I am called to serve, love, share, and encourage. Those are the two big roles that affect my relationship with my husband and with the local church in which he is employed.

I'll conclude this introduction with the following poem and add my comments in italics. For the record, I don't know who Judy Dycus is and I'm sure she is a lovely woman. However, the overall sentiment of this poem makes me vomit in my mouth.

The Pastor's Wife
by Judy Dycus

She's a Godly woman, she has such grace
Always a warm greeting, a smile on her face.
She's always encouraging, she knows her place.
She is - The Pastor's Wife.
She knows her place? And where exactly would that be? And, too bad I can't ever have a bad day or be authentic with my feelings. I just have to plaster on a fake smile and keep shaking hands.

She has to always look just right
Always on time, though the schedule's tight.
From early morning, 'til late at night
Always - The Pastor's Wife
Anyone who knows me that I am rarely on time and while I try to always be put together, I am not a primper.

She's such a Lady, everyone's friend
She serves with love from deep within.
All the rifts she tries to mend
Oh she's - The Pastor's Wife
Not much to say here, except the halo sure looks shiny.

She carries your burdens, she prays for you
Sometimes she cries the whole night through.
But you won't know when she's feeling blue,
'Cause she's - The Pastor's Wife
Actually, you will know when I'm feeling blue. I am an easy crier. As a fellow believer, I am not only to bear your burdens, but you are to bear mine too. How will you know if I don't tell you? And yes, I have cried for you too.

At church as she starts to walk up the aisle,
So many need to stop and talk for awhile.
Though she is tired, she has her own trials
She's patient, she's - The Pastor's Wife
I am pretty patient, but I am not one to walk the aisle or attend things just to be seen.

Her life, her time, is not her own
There's always a need, they go on and on
With a knock at the door, or a ringing phone.
That's the life of - The Pastor's Wife
One of my spiritual gifts is hospitality, so I do try to always be welcoming and meet needs. However, I can also be quite selfish with my time. I also realize the importance of needing to recharge in order to be able to serve.

Her husband she shares with a whole congregation
She humbly accepts his intense dedication.
In loneliness she kneels to see consolation
God Bless - The Pastor's Wife
MAJOR RANT HERE!!!! This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Many pastors' wives feel that they must take a backseat to the church members. I think that is a lie straight from the pits of hell. The priority is God, family (wife and children), THEN church. Any pastor who is consistently spending more time ministering to the church than his own family has some screwed up priorities. There may be brief seasons of extra time in ministry, but family has to come first.

She will someday reach the end of this race
As she meets her Master face to face
Surely our God has a Special Place
In Heaven for - The Pastor's Wife!

Stay tuned for the next installment: Pastor's Wife Job Description